On Manly Loyalty | The Art of Manliness

Mel 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

Awsome article on a virtue that is the king of all virtues in my opinion…my little input…be very aware of “misplaced loyalty”. It can cost you your Mission, your Men, and your Command. Believe me, I know. So, just make sure you do a moral compass check with your other core values or personal code, against what it is your loyal to.

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Rick 3 months ago on Wordpress

While I do understand the idea expressed so often her that loyalty to ones employer or company is out dated and even in some cases detrimental. I feel I must address this. Yes the days of unwavering devotion to ones company seem to be at an end. However, WHY is this? It is expressed by many that the reason for this is, that type of loyalty has so often been betrayed recently that our faith in such ideals is ruined.

While I do agree with this, I can not help but to feel that this is just a symptom of the larger problem. As a Non Commissioned Officer in the United States Army I was taught by great men that loyalty worked two ways never one. If you require loyalty from your men you must first give loyalty to them. It is not a popularity contest. I have seen loyalty of amazing proportion given to some of the hardest SOB’s around. Why? Because they were fair and honest with their men. They required hard work and dedication, but they GAVE hard work and dedication. These HARD men would not ask more than they would do themselves.

I have also seen men of character who worked for lesser men. Who gave loyalty a faithful service. Never shirking from their responsibility, striving to do their best even when they knew they could get by with less. These men taught me the true meaning of loyalty to ones self. The idea that you do not need to be loyal to the company, because the company is not loyal to you, hurts you and those who work with you. It expresses a value to your children and friends and anyone who might admire or look up to you as a man, that is selfishness. It propagates the “whats in it for me” mentality that is the cause of corporate disloyalty in the first place. Employers have an obligation to their employees, corporations have an obligation to their shareholders, and the public in general, and the government, including the bureaucracy have an obligation to the people which they serve.

These ideals have been fading from our world. This has not happened over night, it has been a gently erosion of a few grains at a time over the course of decades. It’s starts in the life of one man, the example that man sets not with words but by example, effects the future actions of many. This grows exponentially and spreads like a disease.

I say that loyalty to ones employer is best shown by simply being an honest man. Work to the best of your ability when you are at work. Do the best job you can do always. Never shortcut anything. Give the time, and skills you are paid for to your job. Take pride in your work not matter what it is. This to is loyalty to yourself and your family. If you must leave your current employer for a better wage, or greater opportunity, that is not disloyalty if you know that you gave the best while employed by them. Loyalty shown to an employer in deed and action will instill loyalty in future generations. Those who come after us will be the new CEO’s and leaders of the world. What they learn early will be the litmus that they measure their future decisions against.

Loyalty in the work place boils down to:

Keeping faith that you will perform 100% the work you are paid to do.

Keeping the secrets of the company to which you are priviliged.

Doing all things at work in the best interest of the company. This sometimes includes whistle blowing. Illegal or dangerous practices are never in the best interest of a company.

Do not talk ill of your employer to those outside of the company. It hurts the company and you. ... See all content Hide content

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Caleb 3 months, 1 week ago on Wordpress

i loved this article. Well written. I appreciate reading the thought provoking perspectives and comments of other virtuous individuals. Man on.

Loyalty is a lifestyle. It manifests itself in all the things that you do. It becomes a measure of your integrity.

I think your question about disloyalty also provides an answer. A man has to justify being disloyal. Justification is subjective . You can justify just about anything, but if your justification flies in the face of honesty, integrity, courage, faithfulness, fortitude, strength, honor, respect, or any number of other adjectives that describe loyalty, then i think justification just becomes excuses. Loyalty is a core, or an ideal, I don’t know if it’s possible to justify your disloyalty to anyone but yourself, as loyalty is a personal decision, executed under unique circumstances. ... See all content Hide content

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On Manly Loyalty | The Art of Manliness : Comfortable Life 3 months, 1 week ago on Wordpress

[...] Excerpt from: On Manly Loyalty | The Art of Manliness [...]

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LIVING WITH BALLS.COM » Links of the Week: October 30, 2009 3 months, 1 week ago on Wordpress

[...] OK. I ran out of segues.  Check out this post from the Art of Manliness on manly loyalty. [...]

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Mr. Miyagi 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Wordpress

I am loyal to the NY Yankees. Go Yankees! Win the series!

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Envirogisgirl 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Twitter

.... Be not loyal to your buddy Eddie, but loyal to the idea of brotherhood and friendship...http://tinyurl.com/ylc9gnz

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pr_humor 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Twitter

On Manly Loyalty http://bit.ly/1WBWMt #postrank #humor

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Kurt Wisener 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Wordpress

Loyalty is a complex concept and no two of us will agree on all interpretations of it. We can, I think, get together on the basics though. Loyalty, like love and other core human conditions is not something you provide when convenient, it is in fact infinitely more positively impacting when maintained at inconvenient times. I am 33 and have the privilege and pleasure of loving an astounding woman. When I met her she was profoundly cynical regarding any kind of future together. She liked me but she simply didn’t trust men on any meaningful level. She had a great father and family but her older brother had gone wrong in a number of ways. He was the first in a long line of men who meant well but failed utterly in one basic area, loyalty. The men she had loved always had a band or friends or careers or even World of Warcraft accounts that she always came second to. She never demanded center stage but it would have been nice if she’d been there once in a while.

I am a flawed man who blew up a military career, two marriages, a good career in the tech field and and my basic integrity before I hit 27. I remembered each and every shameful second of my failed impersonations of manhood the second her core disturbance became clear. I decided then that the things my father had struggled so mightily to teach me, that I had so powerfully rejected to my extraordinary detriment, were abstract no longer. They were critical lessons and chief among them was loyalty. At that second I decided that my own convenience and self-serving efforts were the core of my failures and that if I wanted to have any chance at this incredible woman I needed to pull what in the tech field is called a powered shut down and reboot. I needed to pick one point of loyalty, focus on it and network threads of integrity from that point to the other damaged parts of my identity. It had to start somewhere and she was it.

I decided to simply put her first. Any friend who didn’t accept it got deleted, any woman who challenged it was politely but definitely excised from all contact, game accounts got deleted, disagreeable family was put on notice and my employer (who took it quite well actually) was advised that she, not they had my time priority as she would never abuse that priority.

I am moving tomorrow to Austin because she had to go there and I will not accept a life without her in it. She never had to ask and she is ecstatic at not having to. Oddly enough, she is now the most dedicated woman I have ever known. She never speaks ill of me, she always supports and defends me to anyone she meets. She laughs now at her former cynicism and loves me as perfectly as she can at all times. The results are incredible in other aspects of my life. Friendships have gotten stronger, time is more efficiently spent and my word means something again to good people.

It all came from one moment two short years ago when I decided to be loyal in spite of convenience and comfort. It wasn’t that hard and the rewards have not yet been calculable. Men can be a terribly beautiful thing to behold when we shave away the useless and get to the critical root of a thing, when it comes to loyalty we are almost hardwired with the stubbornness, tenacity, efficiency and single-minded intractability needed to demonstrate it effectively on a consistent time-line.

If you have ever violated your own core of loyalty and burned your integrity as a result simply find what you love most and start over with that. We’re men, we fix things, that’s our thing. My dad told me courage was simply a series of hard seconds spent deciding to do the right thing and executing on those decisions so make this second count. If you are already squared away then don’t be shy! Tell your stories to other men who may need to hear them. Loyalty to each-other as men in general is critical at a societal level and cannot exist as it should if we all pretend we are islands. We all affect other men every day. We should be mindful of that.

In closing let me leave the following simple summary. In a better world which we all deserve Male should be synonymous with integrity, loyalty and kindness. Start now. ... See all content Hide content

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jgwyther 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Twitter

Manly Loyalty: http://bit.ly/kh0AP Best quote, "Be not loyal to a church, be loyal to the gospel."

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Sir Lancelot 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Wordpress

Loyalty to a company is still possible. Whether you work for them for 50 years or two weeks you owe your employer an honest work. I look at it from a business point of view. You as a worker are a businessman, and the company that hires you is your customer.

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Brett McKay 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Wordpress

@Nik-

Let’s look at some more examples. Say you’re a member of a church and the leader of the church gets caught in a scandal. The man who was loyal simply to the church as an institution will feel justified in breaking off his loyalty to his faith. However, I would argue that the man should have been loyal to the principles of the church, to the gospel, to Christ. In that case , the institution can go astray, its leaders can go astray, but a person can remain loyal to his faith because their ultimate loyalty is to the gospel itself.

Let’s look at another scenario. You argue that we should be loyal to individuals, based on our personal relationship with them. You are loyal to your wife but not necessarily to a co-worker. Why? You would argue it is because of your individual, personal relationship with the former but not the latter. Basically because you love and cherish one and not the other. But let’s say you hit a rough patch in your marriage–you no longer feel in love with your wife, you don’t even like her anymore. Will you still be loyal to her? And if so, what will keep you loyal? The man who builds his loyalty on the individual will feel justified in ending things right there-the individual has changed, so his loyalty is no longer in force. But the man who has placed his loyalty on fidelity, on the sacredness of vows, on the sacredness of the idea of marriage-that it is til death do we part, will stick around and try to make things right.

Third example, a new soldier joins a unit. That very same day the unit comes under fire and the new guy is hit. The other soldiers will not leave him behind. If their loyalty was solely to this individual, they would be justified in leaving him behind, no? They have no personal relationship with him. But they are loyal to a principle-leave no man behind.

Let’s come back to the idea of family. We do crazy things for our family. Give them more chances than anyone else, sacrifice more for them than anyone else. And sometimes we don’t even like them that much. Even when we’re estranged, we’ll almost always come through for them. But why? It doesn’t make logical sense. I mean really think about it, why? But we’re loyal to the idea of family, loyal to the principle that family will do anything for family. A family member will take you in, without even knowing you, without any personal relationship with you as an individual, simply because you’re “family.”

As a final example, let’s say you had a best childhood friend who you haven’t seen for 20 years. But they call you out of the blue and need a favor. Let’s say you are willing to do that favor. Can you explain why? You might say it is because you used to be friends. But can you explain why being friends 20 years ago activates your loyalty? Why? I would say it is because you are really loyal to the idea of friendship, not necessarily to this individual man.

In short, although we are loyal to individuals, that loyalty must be ultimately rooted in a larger principle. Otherwise, our loyal will be quite fragile and quite small. ... See all content Hide content

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Jamie 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Wordpress

Some great points, there, Nik.

I, too, think that the concept of “loyalty” is being misrepresented by some of the folks here in the comments. Loyalty doesn’t mean always agreeing without a person or a cause; neither does it mean always apologizing for it or making excuses for it. What it DOES mean is that you have that person’s (or cause’s) best interests at heart . You’re loyal to making that thing to which you are loyal succeed.

You can be loyal to your best friend, but chide him for his philandering. You can be loyal to your church, but disagree with their approach to teaching. You can be loyal to your spouse, but insist on counseling to patch problems in your marriage.

Loyalty is more a promise of unconditional COMMITMENT than a promise of unconditional agreement. ... See all content Hide content

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Nik 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Wordpress

“True loyalty must take as its cause something bigger than the individual; it must be rooted in principles, not people. Be not loyal to your buddy Eddie, but loyal to the idea of brotherhood and friendship. Be not loyal to your wife, but loyal to the idea of love and fidelity. Be not loyal to your sister but loyal to the sacred nature of familial bonds. Be not loyal to a church but loyal to the gospel.” I am really not sure what this passage is supposed to mean, and I think it is vital to people’s conception of loyalty. Allow me to illustrate this:

You choose a charitable organization and dedicate yourself to it, working there for consistently for maybe a decade, helping with projects, working to evangelize the cause, build relationships with businesses, start to help with management until you are part of a local or regional management council, etc. Then, the organization begins to change for the worse, you find that it has lost site of its goals, so you work tirelessly to get it back on track: you talk to other people involved in organizational management at different levels, and they reject you; you talk to other ground-level volunteers, and try to build momentum to get things back on track, you still find yourself snubbed, and soon you find that the organization is less and less open to you, starts pushing you to the sidelines, minimizing your involvement in decisions and planning, maybe trying to force you out of all decision-making.

I think at this point–and not before this point–you are justified to leave the organization and rededicate yourself to another organization that has the same aims that attracted you to the first one. However, here are two other conceptions of loyalty that I believe exist:

1) You should never leave the first organization. Your loyalty is to that organization, and as long as you live, you should never stop trying to correct its path, no matter how alienated you are.

2) You should leave the organization at the first betrayal/large setback. If you see it is going awry, and you talk to the management about fixing it, and they reject you, maybe try talking to them one more time, and then call it quits. You are loyal to the charitable cause, not the charitable organization.

I completely disagree with both of these approaches because I think you have an immediate loyalty to the organization/individual and an ultimate loyalty to the cause. It makes no sense to spend fruitless years trying to fix something/someone with no desire to improve, but it makes even less sense to abandon a once great person/organization without giving it your best effort first. I also think loyalty increases with time. The longer you spend with the person/organization to your mutual benefit, the longer you owe it to try to correct problems before you move on.

I believe that loyalty cannot be blind. All serious actions in life must be regarded critically at the outset and critically throughout, especially because we can never truly and completely know/understand another person. When you discover you have been lied to from the outset, you have no obligation to be loyal; it is up to your discretion to decide how much of your vow/dedication is still valid.

Anyway, long post I know, but I am wondering what type of loyalty you are advocating here, Brett and Kate. In the passage quoted above, you seem to say that your loyalty should not be to the individual/organization, but is it really loyalty without some measure of that?

Further, I completely disagree with the description of loyalty to friends, family and relationships. I am loyal to my wife and only my wife. I have no regard for the institution of marriage except as it relates to *my wife’s* well-being. The same goes for my friends and family. Personal relationships are—tautologically—personal. I think it is empty and impersonal to hold your loyalty to “brotherhood” instead of to your brother. Those categories/conceptions have no merit beyond the good they perform for the parties involved, therefore they should be tailored to each personal situation. In that vein, I extend the same type of loyalty described in the example above to my personal relationships. If my brother betrays me over and over again, I will work hard to improve our relationship, but if it continues unabated, at some point, I will no longer work for it. I will always be open to give him another chance, but I will not always be the one making myself vulnerable and putting in all the effort. At some point your relationship has to become one of hope instead of action. In the same way, I would likely return to the charitable organization A if I found it was under new management and had returned to its roots, perhaps not in the same capacity, but I would return. ... See all content Hide content

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Jeff Young 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Wordpress

To Dan, post 12-

With regards to workplace loyalty, I think the point in the post about being loyal to a cause, not a person, applies to your job. A company is much more of a person than a cause. You should be loyal to your profession, to your calling. Doctors shouldn’t be loyal to the hospital they work at, but rather to the healing they perform. The same thing applies to chefs, car mechanics, engineers, writers, any profession one could be involved in. Your loyalty should compel you to produce the best result possible. If your workplace gives you inferior tools or materials, try to change things, so you can achieve more. If this is not possible, find a new workplace, where your devotion to your craft can shine through.

Overall, great post. Loyalty is one of the traits that I’m trying to cultivate in myself. Strangely, I think I was more loyal, better at showing my loyalty, before college. So I think there is something to this cultural poisoning of loyalty. ... See all content Hide content

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Michael 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Wordpress

Excellent article. One of the better one’s I have read. I would make one very small comment, though. You gave examples, “you proposed, you got baptized, you joined the army.” I agree with the thought, not the examples. I was merely weeks old when I was baptized. Hardly the basis for giving one’s loyalty. Baptized as an adult, absolutely, I would agree with your example and still agree wholeheartedly with the remaining two. ... See all content Hide content

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Will 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Wordpress

Thread in community pages moved: http://community.artofmanliness.com/forum/topics/where-does-loyalty-end

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Rick Scoutmaster 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Wordpress

GREAT post: early in the article, it really is more about trustworthyness, but the rest helped me to get a better handle on “Loyal”, part of the Boy Scout values I am supposed to teach and model. This whole discussion about fundamental, unchanging personal values, your creed as it were, is so rare as to be an enigma to most of our Western society. How can anyone have purpose, a life well lived, without core values? ... See all content Hide content

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Will 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Wordpress

Discussion on this in the community pages: http://community.artofmanliness.com/forum/topics/loyalty-1

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Walter Daniels 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Wordpress

To me, the time for loyalty to change is when the loyalty is betrayed. I.e., when the Religion betrays the core principles it claims (Christian behavior), or the leadership of the country does. Then, I am betraying my “loyalty” to a lesser cause, for sticking to a higher cause (Christ, or Constitution). In the case of Marriage, I consider it justified only if the spouse makes it impossible to remain. I would remain true to my vows, even if they didn’t. I would just not live with them any longer. ... See all content Hide content

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Dan 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Wordpress

Fantastic post!

I have a question though….. how does loyalty fit into the workplace? After all, the days of working with one company for life and then the company taking care of you with a pension are long gone. How does loyalty fit into jobs today?

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Kosh Naranek 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Wordpress

When does loyalty have a loophole? When another loyalty overcomes it. We are all loyal, whether we like it or not. You can be loyal to yourself (most are), to God, or to others.

Consider the following choices:

Cheating wife vs. raising your children in a good home. To whom are you loyal? wife or children? I’ll pick children every time. (This assumes my wife is obstinate in her determination to be adulterous.)

Oath to defend and uphold the Constitution vs. obeying the Commander in Chief. My oath to the Constitution is greater, in my mind, than any oath to any single man or group of men. If the President forces a dichotomy between choosing him or choosing the Constitution, the choice is already made. Constitution wins, President loses.

And so it is in life. Sometimes people fail you. When they do, your loyalty to them should never even waver unless continued loyalty to them places them over what is Right and Good in life. ... See all content Hide content

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Ted Thomas 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Wordpress

Dogs are stupidly loyal…you can beat a dog half to death, until it is cowering in the corner…then whistle and pat your thigh and it will come. At some point youi need to realize that you are being stupidly loyal. I love my wife and was raised to be loyal, hard-working, supporting, and taught that “Men don’t leave”, but when is my happiness lost in being what is expected? , so far this has not come to pass, but it is a benchmark. When my country engages in such needless wars that trying to justify them makes me just look stupid, time to quit defending it. When my friend philanders so openly that defending him makes me look stupid, time to quit. I know the prideful feeling (yeah, a sin) of telling another woman “sorry, I have a wife”, as well as the little twinge of regret (yeah, admit it) that sometimes comes with it (we are men after all). It is a sword we are contemplating throwing ourselves on after all, what will it be for? what will we lose or gain in our disloyalty?. War movies and Westerns shape our ideas of what we are supposed to sacrifice ouselves for, fight for, and quit “being played for a chump”…but we are loyal because it makes us feel good…accept that

OH! You’re my new favorite blogger fyi ... See all content Hide content

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The argument AGAINST virtualization « mattheaton.com | Running Leisure Knowledge 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Wordpress

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Dan 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Wordpress

I love this post. It’s one of the best you’ve written!

For me, loyalty is the creative force behind purpose. I have purpose now that I am loyal to Christ (granted, I’m not perfectly loyal). Because I have a job to do for him, I have a role to play in the world now. Now my focus in raising children is to help steer them in the right direction, to love my wife enough to sacrifice for her, to show my love and grace to my shipmates, and to show that same love to God. This is purpose…and it is because of loyalty to the cause…to God himself. It’s powerful!

And there is never a reason not to be loyal in this case. I can choose to be disloyal, but it isn’t worth it…I tried! ... See all content Hide content

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Zeke McGuire 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Wordpress

I think a man should only be disloyal if the “cause” tries to make him go against his own core values.

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Miss Gabriel 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Wordpress

What a great post! I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with why loyalty is considered “old-fashioned” – a critical balance of people have fallen into a deconstructionist mindset. There are now more people criticizing the false counterpoints than living true virtues, so that the true virtue becomes lost in a miasma of guilt, shame, and fad.

In a society, criticism should ALWAYS be present, but a person should never be afraid to stand up for a concept as good and true. Thank you. ... See all content Hide content

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maverickdad 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Twitter

http://bit.ly/1TIZn2 Reading: On Manly Loyalty Good article to apply to our families as well as every area of our lives as men.

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On Manly Loyalty Discount Shopping 3 months, 2 weeks ago on Wordpress

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