#thingsdarkiessay

Updated 1 month, 4 weeks ago

Source: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/

Dan Scherlis has pointed me to the recent #thingsdarkiessay TwitterStorm. Khaya Dlanga described it at length in a weblog post a week ago ("Yesterday, a short-lived war broke out between the US and SA"):

A virtual war between the United States and South Africa was full-on yesterday, the weapon of choice being Twitter. Unfortunately, the weapon was an American one too. Of course in the bigger scheme of things, even in the smaller scheme, this was an insignificant spat. The war was fought ...

at 140 characters at a time.

It was between South African blacks and African Americans.

[…] The tweet that caused all the trouble is a certain trending topic that went as follows — before I say, I should explain what a trending topic is. Twitter tracks the 10 most popular topics of the day and ranks them according to popularity. These topics are usually preceded by a hash tag. Allow me to demonstrate. #khayasthoughtleaderblogsucks. That would be a trending topic, notehowtherearenospacesbetweenthewords. Yes. WedothatonTwitter. The native that caused all the trouble started a trending topic that reached number 1. #thingsdarkiessay. That was the topic. One would say for example, “#thingsdarkiessay I have high-high”. Elderly black folks say they have high-high, by this they mean high blood pressure. Perhaps using more words than necessary increases their blood pressure. Maybe they were the original tweeters.

Someone else would then say, “#thingsdarkiessay Stop nonsense”. You get the picture. Completely harmless. Unless you were African American. An avalanche of misunderstanding descended on the South Africans like a ton of 140 character insults.

As a result of the complaints, the Twitter management removed #thingsdarkiessay as a "trending topic".

In explaining the intercultural misunderstanding, Dlanga offers this exchange:

Dream Hampton, (@dreamhampton) who became the first woman editor of The Source Magazine asked me if “darkie” wasn’t “more akin to the N word?” I explained to her “No, here that would be the K word”. She was fine with the explanation, if not completely comfortable with it.

In other words, this is one of those cases, like the Tiger Woods "spaz" debate, where a word that's innocuous in one variety of English is seen as deeply offensive in another.

Dlanga feels unfairly treated by Twitter:

It would seem to me, according to Twitter, tweets Americans find offensive but are innocent to others will not be allowed to be trending topics it seems. Part of social media is that we get to learn about each other. It’s not always going to be just fun, sometimes we have to get a little uncomfortable with one another before we can be truly understanding of each other. Even in our hyper-emotional responses we may pause for a moment, breathe, think and learn something about someone else. They were not wrong in their outrage, nor were we when we joked about things darkies say. What was wrong was the inability to try to understand or explain why we held the views we did. Most of the responses were emotional, not rational.

And this feeling leads him to a little anti-American joke:

At some point I even tried to get the US Embassy (@USEmbPretioria) to intervene, they responded by saying, “@Khayadlanga has more pull power with Twitter than we ever will”. The comment was followed by a smiley face. This response was enough for my over-inflated ego. It’s true, flattery will get you anywhere. All I need is flattery and oxygen. I am more powerful than the United States. I feel like invading something. Anything. Suggestions anyone? Should we vote on it? I say let’s invade Khanyi Mbau or Julius. Kidding.

But there's an obvious problem, from Twitter's point of view. If a term X is harmless in region A but problematic in B, then not only will right-thinking people in B be offended, but not-so-nice people in B may enthusiastically join in. Whether (and to what extent) Twitter ought to police such things is another question, of course.

55 comments on this story

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Showing 54 relevant reactions out of 55.

kitwestneat 1 month, 4 weeks ago on Twitter

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1888 multiculturalismos!

Happy Hanabi 2 months, 2 weeks ago on Wordpress

I ran into some linguistic troubles when I went to the U.K. for these very reasons.

First of, 'British' or 'Brit' both refer to a citizen of Great Britain, do they not? What is the proper term to use for a citizen of the United Kingdom? Can you still use 'British' for that? UKer? (That sounds dreadful.)

Also, I was always taught to refer to people as 'African-American' for politeness' ... See all content Hide content

StanCarey 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Twitter

@bngr It seems to be a sequel to this hashclash: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1888

Stan Carey 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

The top two trending topics on Twitter tonight are '#BlackThoughts' and '#whitethoughts'.

Ben Hemmens 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

On the "Kaffir" front, I can contribute that in Austria, "bleder Koffer" (stupid K) and "Vollkoffer" are absolutely current swearwords. There is no consensus as to whether or not they have a racial connotation; more fastidious spirits certainly think they do. The current Mayor of Vienna, Michael Häupl, got a fair bit of attention a few years ago when he referred to someone as "Vollkoffer" in public . ... See all content Hide content

Ben Hemmens 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

"'Jews' and 'dues' are homophones"

Oh indeed. As a pair of colleagues of mine at a language school in Austria found out. A being a loquacious Irishwoman and B an upstate New Yorker of Russian-Jewish descent. B really thought for a few years that A was using (several times a day) the phrase "Fair Jews", but had been too polite to inquire. Of course, where B comes from, a phonetic mixup between ... See all content Hide content

Ben Hemmens 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

Can report a little on "Brit" from an Irish perspective.

I would say in Ireland the term is uniformly pejorative, though persons so designated are expected to put up with it. Not having to tolerate Brits getting hoity-toity with us is the major gain of Irish independence, in most people's subconscious. I would say the role of a preceding f***ing as a modifier has a purely rhythmic function ... See all content Hide content

sharon 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

Stephen Jones does seem a bit special.

Simon Cauchi 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

The limerick rhymes "Niger" with "tiger", but I've always heard the River Niger and the country Nigeria pronounced with the soft g, [dzh], the same affricate as we hear in "badger". And my father used to work in Nigeria, in the British West African Medical Service, as it then was.

Ellen 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

Yes, wider = not the same.

Mary 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

Multilingual Mania

replied, quoting Stephen Jones,

November 14, 2009 @ 1:31 pm

{QUOTE]Stephen Jones said,

November 14, 2009 @ 7:06 pm

but it's still not the same word, and does not have the same range of meanings[/QUOTE]

Multilingual Mania's reply:

[QUOTE]It's got a wider range of meanings: Black, negro, nigger.[/QUOTE]

Also, ... See all content Hide content

Stephen Jones 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

but it's still not the same word, and does not have the same range of meanings

It's got a wider range of meanings: Black, negro, nigger.

Stephen Jones 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

but it's still not the same word, and does not have the same range of meanings

Black, negro, nigger.

mdl 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

Re the Daniel Boone song: You guys know this song has real lyrics, right?

The "bear was bigger" version was just a schoolyard distortion. The original lyrics come from the TV show. It has the same rhythm but no internal rhyme.

Multilingual Mania 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

It's times likes this that we need to have open dialogue about cultural miscommunications through productive dialogue. Well, if it was a cultural misunderstanding and not blatant racism. It's interesting that twitter took it down-I am always offended by the woman hating misogynistic trending topics, or the time that KKK was on the trending topics for two days, and it wasn't taken down. Maybe twitter ... See all content Hide content

Ellen 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

It may come from the word "negro", but it's still not the same word, and does not have the same range of meanings. Black is a closer equivelent to negro, even if not (I assume) etymologically related.

MandianaJones 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Twitter

Lost in #translation or blatant #racism? The problem of @Twitter policing trends - http://owniy.xrt.me #linguistics #socialmedia

WordAficionada 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Twitter

Lost in #translation or blatant #racism? The problem of @Twitter policing trends - http://owniy.xrt.me #linguistics #socialmedia

Stephen Jones 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

The "gay" thing is different. The word itself isn't offensive. It's more like if we insulting a non-black person by calling them black.

Depends on the meaning. If you say of somebody or something 'it/he is just so gay', your being highly disparaging, just as if you said, 'he/it is so lame' or 'it/he's so spastic' even if in other contexts the words are entirely neutral.

Most disparaging ... See all content Hide content

Stephen Jones 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

The phrase in Spanish doesn't contain the word "nigger". "Negro" is the word for "black", the color. Though I can't personally vouch for how it's used for people.

'Nigger' comes from the Spanish word 'negro'.

Mark F. 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

Ellen — It's different but the same. Using "gay" as a generic insult is insulting to gay people; using "nigger" at all is insulting to black people. But in both cases some people want to say "I didn't learn that construction (or some particular variant of it) as an insult, so I should still get to use it."

I shouldn't have brought up taboo avoidance at all. I was really making multiple ... See all content Hide content

Peter Taylor 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

@Mark F: the very first comment on this thread indicates the problem with strict taboo avoidance. I had the same question, went away to Google, came back to enquire whether "the k-word" in question was "kike", and discovered that in the meantime the answer had been posted. Taboo avoidance only works when everyone knows the taboo and the method of avoiding it.

Mihai Pomarlan 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

PS: I noticed that I got ninja-ed on the Language Log comments. That means, Language Log's audience is definitely increasing!

Mihai Pomarlan 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

irt. Nathan Myers:

Well, if I'm allowed to change both adjectives how about "[met a bear that was] brown/ ran like a clown/ up a tree". Brown as in grizzly and not the smaller (though no less vicious) black bear variety. Hopefully not too offensive to clowns. Whatever.

If "bigger" must stay, then "ran like a frigger/ up a tree". Makes as little sense as the original, with the added ... See all content Hide content

Philip TAYLOR 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

As in :

Daniel Boone was a man

Yes, a big man

But the bear was bigger

So he ran like a nigger up a tree ?

If so, how about :

Daniel Boone was a man

Yes, a big man

But the bear was scary

So he flew like a fairy up a tree

I suppose there's a risk that your children will find a /double entendre/ in "flew like a ... See all content Hide content

Lysander 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

Speaking as a middle school educator in the northern reaches of Louisiana in the United States (Shreveport, to be exact), I hear the word "niggah" quite frequently used among students of nearly every possible descent when referring to one another.

I am 24 and this shocked me *immensley*. Growing up in the deep south, I mixed with an incredible array of "ethnic" groups and was originally normatized ... See all content Hide content

Nathan Myers 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

My only substantial exposure to "nigger" until Pulp Fiction was the song about Daniel Boone, who upon encountering a bear that was "bigger", "ran like a nigger / up a tree". I have sought, occasionally, since, for an adjective other than "big" that might be rhymed with something else, to teach to my kids. Thus far nothing has availed. I have come to doubt that anything will serve, and Daniel Boone ... See all content Hide content

Ellen 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

The "gay" thing is different. The word itself isn't offensive. It's more like if we insulting a non-black person by calling them black.

Mark F. 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the "that's so gay" thread. The debate seems pretty similar - "I'm not using word X to disparage group Y, so group Y shouldn't be offended," met by "But refusing to acknowledge group Y's very well-founded sensitivities is offensive in itself."

Some authors on this blog seem to view taboo avoidance as hopelessly irrational. I'm not so sure that's true. Elsewhere ... See all content Hide content

wheatweeds 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Twitter

We were briefly at war with South Africa, did you know? http://bit.ly/FMckd Curtsy @vanderleun

Ellen 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

The phrase in Spanish doesn't contain the word "nigger". "Negro" is the word for "black", the color. Though I can't personally vouch for how it's used for people.

Stephen Jones 2 months, 3 weeks ago on Wordpress

But I seriously doubt that most people would use a phrase with "nigger" and not notice the word "nigger" in it.

As I said I noticed it fifteen seconds afterwards, when I was told to go back to the phrase. It could hardly be that I'm not aware the 'N' word has joined Carlin's list of taboo words with a vengeance and I'm hardly unaware of it; I had discussed embedded 'nigger' phrases in language ... See all content Hide content

Ellen 2 months, 4 weeks ago on Wordpress

It's reasonable to think that some people, some of the time, would use a phrase with "nigger" without thinking about the individual words. But it's an error, in my view, to suggest that most people could hear and use such a phrase and never think about the individual words that make it up, and especially never notice and think about that word "nigger" being part of it.

I think there's some ... See all content Hide content

Jerry Friedman 2 months, 4 weeks ago on Wordpress

But I've never heard a jewish person refer to themselves as a "Kike", an Italian refer to themselves as "wop" or "itai", or a black person call themselves a "coon" or "wog".

Me neither, but I'm told the late Gian-Carlo Rota used to refer to a form of entertainment he liked as the "wopera".

A search for "I'm a wop" will turn up some hits that aren't discussions of ethnonyms, such as ... See all content Hide content

Sili 2 months, 4 weeks ago on Wordpress

Mary,

Not that it matters, but by the sound of it, you navigate this modern world far better than I do at 32. I'm not on Twitter for instance.

I do love to learn how broad the readership of LL is - and how varied the population of the internet.

Thank you.

language hat 2 months, 4 weeks ago on Wordpress

(Oops: make that "when it's part of a phrase.")

language hat 2 months, 4 weeks ago on Wordpress

'Work like a nigger' is a set phrase. Same in Spanish ('trabajar como un negro'). Despite the racial origin of the phrase no more a sign of racism in the people that use it than 'blacklist' or 'welch'. People can quite easily avoid offensive phrases by flagging the term in their mental dictionary as 'objectionable'; we do that all the time when we change register. But flagging 'nigger' as objectionable ... See all content Hide content

Ken Brown 2 months, 4 weeks ago on Wordpress

montgomery said: "Let me be the first to say directly: it is profoundly racially insensitive of you to think that just because the N word is in a set phrase, it is okay to use it. Particularly when the set phrase, as Dance noted above, has obvious connections to slavery. FWIW, I emailed my (black) cousins in England to find out if this would pass unnoticed in Britain as a "set phrase" and they said ... See all content Hide content

Mary 2 months, 4 weeks ago on Wordpress

I'd like to comment on the Twitter topic phrase in question. Having grown up and lived all my life in several states of the U.S. South, and having been a Twitter aficionado for about a year, I immediately separated the words to their intended meaning.

They brought to mind the revision in the 1960s of the lyrics to Stephen Foster's "My Old Kentucky Home" — a song I now hear mostly when ... See all content Hide content

Picky 2 months, 4 weeks ago on Wordpress

"Working like a nigger" and "nigger in the woodpile" were both current in BrE in my youth without intended racial offence. But the fact that there was also the expression "working like a black" indicates that the individual words still had a meaning. I couldn't use either expression today in ordinary speech, and nor, I think, could most British people.

And that's "British people" because most ... See all content Hide content

Tim Silverman 2 months, 4 weeks ago on Wordpress

@Stephen Jones:

We don't think of tools, mechanics or zoology when we talk of 'the spanner in the works' or 'the elephant in the room'.

I do.

Or rather, I specifically visualise spanners and machinery in the former case, and an elephant in a room in the latter.

I also visualise a bucket (a rather dirty, yellow, plastic bucket, out of doors in a muddy yard, being ... See all content Hide content

Dougal Stanton 2 months, 4 weeks ago on Wordpress

an Italian refer to themselves as "wop" or "itai"

The latter seems to be alive and well in the Scots Italian community.

Jon 2 months, 4 weeks ago on Wordpress

Philip TAYLOR wrote "My grandfather would use the word "nigger" in a distinctly non-pejorative sense"

A friend of a friend of mine, probably the same generation as Philip's grandfather, was known as "Nigger". He was a UK caucasian, darker-skinned than most. He was distressed that during his lifetime, his name had become an unsayable word.

Stephen Jones 2 months, 4 weeks ago on Wordpress

(I was startled to discover that one meaning describes people like me, although I tend to refer to myself as "an invisible black person" rather than as someone who has an "N in the woodpile." But that's neither here nor there.)

The phrase has gone out of use; the last high profile use was by a 73 year old Tory peer, who rightly pointed out it was a common set phrase for his generation. I know ... See all content Hide content

Stephen Jones 2 months, 4 weeks ago on Wordpress

Here's what the Online Etymological Dictionary has to say about "kaffir":

The problem is that it provides no evidence as to how British missionaries in South Africa decided to use an Arabic word in an entirely different context.

Swahili would have provided a medium for the Arabic word to have reached the Africans but my personal view is that it is quite possible there is no relation ... See all content Hide content

Violet 2 months, 4 weeks ago on Wordpress

The word "monkey" got the Indian cricketer, Haribhajan Singh into a lot of trouble with Australian cricketer, Andrew Symonds. I don't think a lot of Indians realised that "monkey" was a racial insult until the controversy.

Marinus 2 months, 4 weeks ago on Wordpress

@ Dan Lufkin: It isn't that using 'baie' as a comparative is a higher register than doubling. Doubling words simply isn't productive in Afrikaans: saying 'koud koud' or 'groen groen' is just the same as saying 'cold cold' or 'green green' in English, something you can make sense of but which isn't in the grammar. Where doubling does occur, it doesn't usually act as an intensifier: it might for 'gou-gou' ... See all content Hide content