By: uberVU - social comments

Havlová 3 months ago on Wordpress

My point with the racially disaggregated serial killer lists was to show that serial killing is not found significantly moreso among whites than blacks. It is an imperfect example, but I challenge you, Tom, to find a counter-example. So far it is only I who have had to prove my claims. You dismiss each of my pieces of proof, but provide little counter-example to bolster your position.

I wanted to show this because you claimed that since serial killers are so often white, and given that serial killers usually prey on victims of their own race, black women would therefore be less likely than white women to be victims. I believe it is clear this is false, unless Tom can produce sounder evidence than I the opposite.

I agree with Shenanigan’s comments. It is a well-known fact that blacks have a more fraught relationship with the police (and the criminal justice system) than whites. Anticipating a challenge for Tom, I will provide links showing that blacks are disproportionately penalized by the criminal justice system, blacks are disproportionately murdered by police (blacks make up 66% of people killed by police in NYC), reporting of missing or killed blacks often takes back seat to reporting on white people, there are many localities which experience racial discrimination in the hiring of police officers (here’s one story, google for more), and individuals have sued police departments for inaction investigating disappearance and murder in black communities (here’s one such story, google for more).

There is also a blog created to help fill the gap on coverage of and attention to missing black people. Black and missing.

In conclusion, I believe that race is a factor in Sowell’s ability to get away with his crimes so brazenly and for so long. ... See all content Hide content

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Shenanigans 3 months ago on Wordpress

“All it shows is that the author of the list was able to find a lot of black serial killers. So therefore black serial killers get a lot of press coverage.”

according to the person that made that list, which, as was pointed out, is not exhaustive and therefore we can not say that black serial killers get a lot of press coverage.

however, i think the original point was more about the victims and complicity of those surrounding the area and involved with the investigation and coverage (with the focus being coverage of victims based on their identity, specifically their race). that victims who are white women (typically middle class or upper class) receive more coverage is commonly referred to as ‘missing white woman syndrome’.

as far as race mattering when police handle a case, how has that shown to not be a factor? it has been a factor historically (such as the race riots and how the police handled it) and continues to be. perhaps somewhat anecdotal, but where i live is largely racially segregated. during certain times (for example, 4th of july), the police do not answer calls from the ‘bad’ areas of town (aka, those largely populated by people of color). i’ve seen the barricades up and spoken to police who told me that it is common practice to not respond to calls from that area. there are many different examples of the handling of criminal or extreme situations according to the racial make up of the people involved (such as the heat wave in chicago and katrina). its not surprising that in serial killing cases, the coverage follows a similar pattern. ... See all content Hide content

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Havlová 3 months ago on Wordpress

Thanks for looking that up Tom.

I’m going to nitpick and say that saying that more white women than black women have been killed by serial killers is different than saying black women are *statistically* less likely to be a serial killer victim.

I will say once again, the point IS relevant. Many serial killers prey upon their own race, but not all. The very Wikipedia page you point out makes note of that.

It also gives a breakdown of infamous serial killers by race, listing 9 black men and 23 whites. (A failing here is that this list is not exhaustive.) This is 39% black killers, whereas blacks only make up about 13% of the US population. So even if the majority of killers prey upon their own race, there are more black serial killers per capita among US blacks than white serial killers per capita among US whites.

Whether or not there or more or less black victims of serial killers, race definitely still effects how police handle their cases or the media portrays their stories. ... See all content Hide content

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Havlová 3 months ago on Wordpress

@Tom

“There are many more white women on the fringe of society than there are black women.”

I am interested if you have any supporting documentation. That’s an interesting topic, the racial make-up of societies margins. I have a feeling that POC are disproportionately represented, but I’d like to see your numbers.

“First, the link you pointed to has nothing to do with police investigation of murdered women. It has to do with press coverage. If you want to discuss how serial killers of white women get more press coverage that’s a different issue.”

I think you misread the purpose of my post. My post is about complicity. Who *allowed* this to happen by choosing inaction over action, acceptance over questions? Both press coverage, which is often spurred by a rigorous police investigation, and the police themselves are relevant to this point.

“Second, “And predators always aim for the easiest victims” is 100% wrong.”

I think if we look at serial killers historically the almost always aim for the easiest victims. Children, runaways, drug addicts, prostitutes, poor people. They often target victims of their own race, which may also have something to do with who they have easy access to.

Charles Manson aside, do you have a long list of examples to prove me “100% wrong” in this statement? I don’t think there are many examples of serial killers who went after female politicians or female heads of state or woman CEOs.

““And black women are more likely to be at that margin than white women” is irrelevant.”

This is my post we’re talking about. And I say it *is* relevant. In a discussion about predators who prey on marginalized people, the racial make-up of the margin is relevant.

“And white women are MUCH more likely to be killed by a serial killer than black women.”

I hadn’t heard this before. Where are you getting your knowledge? I would be interested in reading more on this topic, but I admit I find it surprising that white women are “much more likely” to be targeted by a serial killer, can you provide some numbers? ... See all content Hide content

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Tom 3 months ago on Wordpress

“that is not the main argument. the argument is that when marginalized people are killed, their stories receive little attention”

Actually no. Your argument is that when marginalized people disappear, the police do nothing. Lots of marginalized women disappear because they have moved away but haven’t left a forwarding address. Most of the time they are fine but there is no easy way to track them. A more serious investigation probably would be able to determine whether they were OK or they had been murdered. But it’s hard to justify spending money to investigate something when it isn’t clear that there has been a crime. If you disappeared it would be a different story. The police could see that your credit cards weren’t being used. They could check airports for flights. They could see if you had packed your belongings. They could interview your friends and co-workers.

“We have a lot of women of color who disappeared and who police just never even bothered to look for,” Ms. Martin said.’

Yes, and Rochester, NY had a lot of white women who disappeared. And so did Seattle, WA. And because they were prostitutes and drug addicts, the police in those cities did nothing until the bodies started turning up.

This isn’t a black or white story. This is what happens to marginalized women of any race when a smart serial killer kills them and disposes of their bodies so that they are hard to find. I suggest you read about the Green River Killer. ... See all content Hide content

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