The Truth about Immigration – The migrants you don’t hear about in the tabloids

Amazing. It’s more like a scene from ‘one flew over the cuckoos nest’ then a debate in reality.

There is no free exchange of ideas and thoughts, just endless insults, strawmen and weasel words.

I put up valid points based upon reality, where the real people live, and you guys just come up with surreal inventions, outright lies and convoluted nonsense.

**“You were suggesting that most asylum seekers crossed several borders to reach “soft touch” UK.”**

Again you put “speech marks” on something I didn’t say; you did.

**“I was pointing out a major flaw in your argument – I am sure most asylum seekers arrive by air.”**

Based upon what exactly?

And genuine asylum seekers are required to claim asylum at the point of entry. Not use visas to enter and then claim, or overstay and then claim, or enter illegally and then claim.

And the figures of the author of this post clearly states that only 1 in 3 claims at point of entry.

**“Not really insulting is it?”**

Again with the lies.

What you actually said was:

“There’s this magical new invention (I understand why you may not have heard of it, it’s only been around for 80 years or so) called an aeroplane.”

“There’s also another magical invention (again, I understand that it’s only been around for a few thousand years, so fully appreciate why you may have neglected to think about it) called a boat.”

And you now claim that these childish attempts at scorn were not meant to be insulting?

**“I could be insulting if you like, you big twat.”**

Yeah and I could call you a stupid cunt, but that’s not really a debate is it? That’s not what we are here for, is it? Or is it?

**“You just hate it when people point out the flaws in your logic and your (deliberate) misinterpretation of facts to suit your prejudices.”

You haven’t done any such thing! And you now talk as if you know me.

All you have done is totally ignore what I have actually said, invent your own version and attack that. Weird.

**“Obviously there are other major flaws in your argument,

such as we receive our “fair share” of applicants relative to the rest of the EU and 85% of EU asylum seekers apply in other EU countries.”**

Again with the “speech marks” attributing quotes to me that I haven’t made and arguing against your own lies.

I haven’t claimed any such thing. I have clearly stated:

“[the] convention they use to claim asylum also tells them to claim it in the first safe country… when people use one part of a law and convention to claim asylum but break another part of the law and convention by not claiming it in the first safe country these people are not genuine asylum seekers…people that do not claim asylum in the first safe country are not our legal responsibility…If and when Western Europe erupts in civil war and oppressive regimes, then the UK will have to honour its international obligations and take in genuine asylum seekers just in the same way as these other countries else where are now honouring their international obligations.”

**“It’s possible. Our globalised world requires lots of commercial ships to take goods from one part of the world to another.”**

Even if it were even remotely true, and you now move away from everyone arriving via an airplane; but commercial ships dock multiple times around the world on a long haul voyage and at least one on those routes cited would be a safe country; also at the very least, one person in the crew would have to be involved making it the very people smuggling operation I referred to.

**“Though maybe I’m being silly as you say and asylum seekers arriving in this way is a logical impossibility?”**

It’s also a logical possibility that they have used air balloons to arrive, and maybe even rode the backs of dolphins; but its not reality is it? Or do you have evidence that that it is a major route in? ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 2 weeks ago by Curious Freedom on Wordpress

Yes “Lemmy” / DHG, everyone is laughing at me! Whilst you spoof yourself, Chairman moo, me and use multiple identities to troll

Besides the prose, semantic style and choice of words giving you away, a quick Google search and a few links later I have found that many people have flagged you as a proper nutcase and this as one of your favourite devices.

You are deranged, even by internet standards. What a freak. ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 2 weeks ago by Curious Freedom on Wordpress

curious racist, you’re a liar, a duck & weave merchent and a bad joke, when is your show on? Can’t wait to see it…oh and you thinking you’ve answered the question doesn’t make it so. Poor deluded fool

3 months, 2 weeks ago by lemmy on Wordpress

@ Donut Hinge Party

**“Where does nationalism begin and anti-federalism end?”**

If you don’t know then it is not up to me to educate you.

The EU is not a nation, I will give you that much.

**“Yes, there could have… But there weren’t.”**

Again, just bullshit.

Either through design or through ignorance you failed to note that an article on the same day from the same outlet clearly tells you that the total of 2100 who have applied to be checked is less then half of the estimated amount of intuitions actually catering for foreign students.

‘Of the 5,000 thought to take foreign students only 2,100 have so far applied to have their credentials checked. And of those 460 have been rejected.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/5083517/Bogus-colleges-are-Achilles-Heel-of-immigration-system-say-Phil-Woolas.html

So the minister’s estimate could well be right as so many refused to register for checks.

@ Lee Griffin

**“Aside from the repeated using of a ministers statement as proof of fact, which is hilarious”**

Clearly you are not the brightest, but when a career man in charge of a department admits that his department is woefully inadequate in areas of management and policy for issues within its remit, and that certain areas of his responsibility have been seriously abused and undermined then it is quite obvious that admission can only do that career man harm, not good, and he only admits it because the problem is so massive it cannot be covered up anymore.

You see?

But go on then, why do you think he is lying about it then?

**“CF you have purposefully avoided this question, so I ask you again…”**

Like I have said, you are clearly not the sharpest pencil in the case.

The question has already been answered in full.

**“your other statements are so devoid from reality (I mean, how can you not understand how foreign students fully funding their own places in university would prop up departments that normally only a few UK students would wish to take part in?”**

Again, that’s an outright lie by you.

I have said no such thing.

**“Your naivity is amazing”**

Your stupidity is amazing.

And you really believe that the student visa system hasn’t been massively abused?!!

**“as “fact”, in which case you should probably go back to BNP sites where they’re more likely to buy your wares”**

Just more hot air from an air head that cannot even read previous comments he is responding to or comprehend them.

Typical malicious fluff from an idiot who cannot debate so seeks to discredit instead. ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 2 weeks ago by Curious Freedom on Wordpress

yep, curious freedom is a racist, ducking and weaving and not answering questions, intolerant of his bigoted ideas being taken apart and quite clearly obsessed with having the last word.

3 months, 2 weeks ago by lemmy on Wordpress

Where does nationalism begin and anti-federalism end? I mean, presumably you’re not saying that those advocating leaving Europe can be reduced to the level of pure ‘nationalism’, are you? Maybe you are – maybe you’re trying to prove we’re all nationalists at heart. Although I’m not, if there was a Frenchman and a Yorkshireman drowning in the river, I wouldn’t automatically go for the Yorkshireman.

The minister in charge himself admitting it is a widely abused shambles? 124 of the 256 ‘colleges’ the government deigned to inspect between 2005 and 2008 being found to be bogus? The government admitting that “there could have been more than 2,000 bogus colleges”…

Yes, there could have.

Each of the 2,100 universities, independent schools and colleges which applied for the license was visited by a UK Border Agency (UKBA) officer as part of the vetting process to root out the fake institutions. A total of 460 were rejected.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/5078652/Hundreds-of-bogus-colleges-exposed.html

But there weren’t. ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 2 weeks ago by Donut Hinge Party on Wordpress

Curious Freedom,

Hmm…

So you admit you just arbitrarily call people that you don’t agree with racists with no reasoning, not theory behind it.

Not usually, no. And there is nowt arbitrary about it. I have read everything you have posted on this thread and my contention is that you have outed yourself.

Your final paragraph:

Oh that’s OK then. You just hate the English. No law against that. There is law against pretty much everything else. But not that.

takes the biscuit.

I generally agree with folk that write Opinion Pieces on here. I have had my ups and downs with Unity, but hopefully that has been based around arguement and discussion rather than me hating the English, which, just for the record, I don’t.

Just out of curiosity, and seeing as how I have revealed my membership of the SNP, would you care to tell everyone here what political party you favour? ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 2 weeks ago by douglas clark on Wordpress

Curious Freedom 10:55pm November 25th 2009,

Hmm…

My only contention has been that the Student Visa system has been massively abused and I have proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt, thank you very much Dougie.

Really? Where? Not on this site you haven’t.

Do elaborate on your theory though and what it is based upon; and do explain what you think the word actually means too and if all foreign students are non-white in any case…

Err…

As I don’t have a theory to express, I fail to really understand what you are talking about. ‘Course, now you’ll say I am an idiot. Which may well be the case, however even idiots can spot an agenda driven diatribe such as your posts here.

You really are a Liberal Democrat aren’t you?!

You make so many bold and offensive statements and then keep ending on a confused wishy washy not-really-sure-anymore note.

Not anymore. I am a paid up member of the SNP.

Please point me to any offensive posts that I have made here. If you mean I have offended racists, I’d quite like the medal. ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 2 weeks ago by douglas clark on Wordpress

@88 I know you’re using cutesy rhetoric above, but obviously the issue is “if you’re a bigot who wants to pretend they aren’t, then making up spurious nonsense about fake universities swamping us with a gazillion job-stealing dole-bludgers is more palatable than simply marching in line with Nick Griffin at Kick Out The Darkies Fest 2009″.

3 months, 2 weeks ago by john b on Wordpress

curious freedom: clinging to racist ideas even though his bigotry and closed mind have been taken apart.

3 months, 2 weeks ago by lemmy on Wordpress

@ douglas clark

**“Which is why I’d argue that you have no facts that back you up”**

My only contention has been that the Student Visa system has been massively abused and I have proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt, thank you very much Dougie.

What part of the facts above do you not understand? The minister in charge himself admitting it is a widely abused shambles? 124 of the 256 ‘colleges’ the government deigned to inspect between 2005 and 2008 being found to bebogus? The government admitting that “it thinks there could have been more than 2,000 bogus colleges”…

**“Which is more or less what the Liberal Democrats have been saying all along.”**

This would be the same Liberal Democrats that don’t have a snowball in hells chance of ever winning power in this country and are even being out done by the BNP in some recent elections and may well have to fight just to stay as the third party?!!

**“Perhaps you see your “arguement” as a demonstration of your “logic”**

It is abundantly clear that you are a pretty smug so-called Liberal bigot, but when using your air of superiority to try to put me down and speech marks to highlight your contempt, it may be best to check that the spelling in those speech marks is actually correct.

Lest you look a fool, sweet pea.

**“Why does it look to me, as a byestander, like a load of racist tosh? I have no idea whether you are right or wrong on the subject, but…”**

You are no bystander, and you I will say the same to you as I did to ‘Lemmy’:

If calling the student visa system a shambles that needs a proper overhaul and calling for all eligible British students to get funding and the first places in British Universities equate to the hatred of race to you, then you really need help.

Do elaborate on your theory though and what it is based upon; and do explain what you think the word actually means too and if all foreign students are non-white in any case…

**“Apart from that, and the ad hominems obviously, keep going.”**

After you slipped your own in? What a hypocrite.

**“You, on the other hand, are only interested in exploiting the debate on your own terms.”**

Why? Because you say so? And who the hell are you?

I have made my point quite clear and proved it beyond any shadow of a doubt, except, maybe to deluded middle class liberal types who don’t believe anything that goes against the grain.

**“Least, that’s what it looks like to me…..”**

You really are a Liberal Democrat aren’t you?!

You make so many bold and offensive statements and then keep ending on a confused wishy washy not-really-sure-anymore note. ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 2 weeks ago by Curious Freedom on Wordpress

Curious freedom @ 6.01pm, November 24th 2009,

Well, you say:

We do know the ‘in’ as the FOI story illustrates, and the new system was designed to tell us the ‘out’ too, so we shall see.

Which is why I’d argue that you have no facts that back you up. Facts depend on statistics being gathered correctly. If that is not the case, then we might as well be debating the number of angels on a pinhead. Which is more or less what the Liberal Democrats have been saying all along.

And you are wrong. I am demonstrating that the student visa system has been heavily abused and needs a proper rehaul.

Perhaps you see your “arguement” as a demonstration of your “logic”.

Why does it look to me, as a byestander, like a load of racist tosh? I have no idea whether you are right or wrong on the subject, but…

Apart from that, and the ad hominems obviously, keep going.

I, for one, would really like to see whether Unity is right or wrong on this subject. You, on the other hand, are only interested in exploiting the debate on your own terms.

Least, that’s what it looks like to me….. ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 2 weeks ago by douglas clark on Wordpress

Dan, look up the course fees. Work out how much extra money Imperial made from the 2185 non-EEA students, compared to the amount of money the same number of British students brings in.

Actually, sod it, I’ll do it for you. Source

A quick scan tells me that most postgraduate taught courses cost a little under (and some a little over) £5000 to Home/EU students, and over £16,000 to non-EU students. So, on most courses, non-EU students are paying about three times the amount that UK students are paying.

Granted, the fees in the Business school appear to be the same for both home and EU students, so to be fair let’s knock that £11,000 gap down a bit to account for that – so, say, the average difference between a home and non-EU student’s fees is around £8,000 (I’ve knocked a considerable amount off because the number of students coming to study business courses is probably the largest single course, and I don’t want to be accused of underestimating the impact of that – and remember the £11,000 initial gap I took was conservative).

So, £8,000 extra per student – still on average a non-EU student is paying about double what a UK student is paying – the 2185 non-EU students are bringing in nearly as much as the 6350 Home and EU students (who won’t all be British).

That’s a staggering £16,480,000 just because they come from outside of the EU – and that’s the *extra* money, not their entire fees.

Do you really think Imperial can do without that money?

Do you not think that perhaps Imperial might not be able to employ the range of staff with the necessary range of skills and expertise if they stopped accepting foreign students and only accepted British students?

Do you not think this money pays for resources and laboratories?

Do you seriously believe that if they only accepted British students that the Home/EU fees wouldn’t rise? ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 2 weeks ago by Phil H on Wordpress

I would like to see this:

Fact: The eb5 visa program is responsible for X amount of jobs.

I respect all people and their beliefs, but I think that when you post a whole bunch of statistics like this, you should show some positive and some negative. Otherwise you risk losing credibility. Just my opinion..

3 months, 2 weeks ago by Mitchell Grosu Jr III on Wordpress

Not wishing to add fat to the fire, but it’s worth noting that earlier this year the government quietly added the ‘Post Study work’ feature to Tier 1 of the points-based system. This entitles anyone holding an HND or higher qualification from a British institution (and funds of £800) to a two-year residence and work-permit without actually needing to have found a job first.

According to the UK Border Agency this feature was added to the package to “enhance the United Kingdom’s overall offer to international students.”

So, not only are British students competing with non-Europeans on the front-end for places at the best universities, they may also encounter them on the back end as well, in the labour market. ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 2 weeks ago by Dan Dare on Wordpress

@ Donut Hinge Party

**“Really, this is the wrong forum; too much ad hominem and polemic…”**

It always does with the left and any subject they don’t want raised, and you don’t do such a bad job of it yourself.

So-called liberals are only up for diversity and tolerance as long as it’s on their terms and within their agenda. Any whiff of dissent and there is nothing liberal in the reaction.

The tactics are all the same:

1) Tar the dissenter as a ‘racist’ or some such like hate label so to discredit them

2) Lie about what the dissenter has actually said, as you and everyone else has gone on to do with your lies that I have demanded a stop to all foreign students or claimed that they have pushed out British Students

3) Keep repeating the lies about the dissenter and then introduce some others, most likely sock puppets, to variously attack and ridicule the dissenter on this lies rather then what has actually been said.

**“such as CF’s frankly bizzare one that the reason people can’t get into university is because there are two many foreigners inside”**

As I said, complete rubbish, an outright lie when what I have actually said is this:

“tens of thousands of British students have missed out on university after applications increased but places were cut because of the Government’s cash crisis.”

“I am at loss that you do not seem to understand that point was that this nasty anti-British government is allowing 50,000 British students who are undoubtedly genuine to be turned down on the grounds of lack of funds when they manage to find inordinate sums to prop up the streams of bogus asylum seekers pouring into this country (that is every single one of them who has passed through a safe country to get here) as well as the billion pound a year ‘aid’ to India, just for instance, that allows them to have a space programme whilst we do not.”

“The point was as well that a certain amount of wealthy foreigners are always going to want to pay for prestige universities such as Oxford and Cambridge, but British university places are for British students first and foremost and it is the duty of the government to ensure that suitable candidates go forward, not squander our money on wars, bankers and “foreign aid.”

“What is clear is that up to 60,000 British students will miss out on a university education because our government prefers to squander our hard earned cash on wars, bankers and “foreign aid.”

@ Ken McKenzie

**Firstly, as stated, Curious Freedom is entirely wrong about foreign students ‘denying’ home students university places.**

The lie continues and even adopts ‘quote marks’ to support the lie when what I actually said was:

“Indeed up to 50,000 UK students have been denied places at British universities this year while the number of non-European students given places has doubled over the last ten years.

Figures published earlier this year by the Universities and Colleges Admissions Service (UCAS) show that tens of thousands of British students have missed out on university after applications increased but places were cut because of the Government’s cash crisis.”

No mention of foreign students ‘denying’ British places, just that British places had been denied.

I then go on, as you can see above to elaborate on why they were denied, and it doesn’t include your lie.

@ jungle

**“Your insistence that places for British students are being maliciously taken away to give them to foreign students is complete nonsense.”**

And now the lie grows a bit more with my “insistence” that places are “maliciously” taken away from British students.

@ lemmy

“This is good, mountains of evidence are ignored as the entrenched racist called CURIOUS FREEDOM carries on regardless.”

Another eloquent and beneficial contribution from a one sentence loon who clearly bandies the word ‘racist’ around to feel some sort of smug power and discredit opponents.

If calling the student visa system a shambles that needs a proper overhaul and calling for all eligible British students to get funding and the first places in British Universities equate to the hatred of race to you, then you really need help. ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 2 weeks ago by Curious Freedom on Wordpress

Lemmy,

Pardon me.

No, it is not good.

It is a deliberate distraction, at least I think it is.

There is evidence, at least I think there is, that we do not know the extent of emmigration.

For the sake of a balanced debate that has to be part of the arguement. I’d assume, contrary to ‘curious freedom’ that the bulk of students would indeed return to their country of origin, and that that would be the norm.

As far as I can call it, ‘curious freedom’ is all sound without substance ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 2 weeks ago by douglas clark on Wordpress

CuriousFreedom:

Your insistence that places for British students are being maliciously taken away to give them to foreign students is complete nonsense.

If the foreign students did not “take the places” then the places would not exist – because their fees PAY for their places. Their high fees also pay for more places for British students besides, as well as for scientific research, which is why universities are desperately scrabbling for more foreign students all the time. It’s really very simple.

As for the argument over whether students are staying or leaving on ending their courses: despite your quoting all these supposedly ‘referenced’ figures on students leaving the UK, the fact is that this information is not recorded by anyone. Any ’statistics’ given on students leaving/staying (and the main article is a rare example of one that does resist the temptation) are either guesses or politically motivated.

However, it’s fairly obvious that anyone who has just paid £10,000+ in tuition fees is unlikely to want to hang around for the sort of sub-minimum wage job you can get without someone checking your visa status – such people clearly already have money already… ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 2 weeks ago by jungle on Wordpress

Curious Freedom @ 18.

Well?

We do know the in’s and outs under this so-called ‘student visa’ programme and we do know under this ‘new and tough points system.’

Apparently we don’t. See the previous hundred odd posts..

Unity is attempting to establish facts, you sir, are attempting to establish damage.

At least, that is what I think you are doing…

3 months, 2 weeks ago by douglas clark on Wordpress

Really, this is the wrong forum; too much ad hominem and polemic when the argument seems to be about numbers. A wiki would be much better; one person could make a claim, and cite a source. Someone could challenge that claim and quote their source, the comments could dissect the sources until we find those crisis points (maybe two self-completion questionnaires with differing sample criteria)

Where this works is in dissection of emotive arguments, such as CF’s frankly bizzare one that the reason people can’t get into university is because there are two many foreigners inside, which is kind of like blaming foreigners for being in front of you in the queue for the till in a shop, when it is PRECISELY THEIR CUSTOM which is responsible for the shop still being there in the first place. ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 2 weeks ago by Donut Hinge Party on Wordpress

@ sevillista

**“Yes. They show that your interpretation of them was complete bollocks.”**

I have already conceded that they are not much to go on and said “that they are all we have because this government doesn’t want you to know the truth” because they, and the previous government deliberately stopped keeping accurate records.

But I was actually scanning several of the tables as well and not just the one you cited. For instance, table 3.13 shows an inflow of 147,000 non-British students into the UK with an outflow of 46,000 non-British students. But that is listed as usual occupation prior to migration and is again down to the discretion of the person giving the answers.

**“If you’re bitter because you didn’t get a higher education place, I would suggest it is because of your intellect rather than those horrible foreign students.”**

I’m not bitter at all, I am just stating an opinion and you have no idea of my education so why even bother with the stupid vindictive personal little insults over an online debate and a conflicting opinion?

I have said the student visa system has been heavily abused and even without those figures it clearly has, and continues to be.

Even the people you appear revere so much in charge of it all agree for God’s sake.

**“It’s got fuck all to do with the number of foreign students. Glad you admit that.”**

I never said it was, you just added that in yourself. I didn’t admit anything, I clearly stated it.

**“Universities cross-subsidise British students with income from profitable foreign students who they can charge a market fee too. What do you think will happen if there is less money to do this cross-subsidisation of British students? Why do you think if you subsidise something less, supply will rise?”**

I have said that lack of funds should not be a reason for denying British students places in British universities and that suitable British candidates should fill the places first before being offered to foreigners.

**“I agree. Which is why the correct response is to make sure that foreign students are truly studying”**

Good; then you pretty much agree with me on my entire contention here because that is all I have said.

**“rather than banning foreign students entirely base on assertions that have little basis in fact that “most foreign students are abusing the system”**

I didn’t say that. It’s your own embellishment.

Why did you feel that necessary?

**“Shouldn’t we ban tourists on your logic.”**

Again, not my logic but your own embellishment.

Again, why did you feel that necessary? ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 2 weeks ago by Curious Freedom on Wordpress

@ Lee Griffin

**“A glorious time to be a student, it seems, is when the public forgets that they are “scroungers and drunken layabouts” because their plight (which doesn’t exist, no matter how many times you quote irrelevant quotes, as others here have shown) happens to coincide with your anti-immigration arguments”**

What an odd and meaningless statement.

I have posted no quotes, irrelevant or otherwise about students being “scroungers and drunken layabouts.”

Very strange indeed.

As is your very odd tie in to my non-existent “anti-immigration arguments.”

**“Anti-immigration arguments that you still haven’t explained your reason for, as it happens. And yes, like all the other times I *have* read above and, no, you haven’t explained your answers.”**

I have explained my reasons for proper controls on student visas many times now.

I just didn’t answer your strange question as re-posted because it is, well strange.

But if it is really that important to you then the answer is that if they came on a student visa and haven’t stuck to its terms they are illegal immigrants and should be treated as such irregardless of what they may be doing.

**“I also repeat that students from outside the EU are an overwhelming economic benefit to this country”**

If they are genuine, I am talking about the significant numbers that are not.

**“These two things you’ve not really tackled…which is fair enough as there really is no escaping those realities so best to ignore them rather than admit you’re wrong, right?”**

I have answered it and with evidence repeatedly.

**“As for your “spoon feeding” comment. I ask you to back up your claims because I have (like others here) been looking at this issue as in depth as I can manage for a long while.”**

The comment was in response to you making claims and then telling me to do my own research when you wanted me to provide granular detail for you.

Obviously.

**“Your quotes are not new, nor are they proof of anything”**

They prove plenty. Especially when the minister in charge of this debacle admits that “the abuse of the student visa has been the biggest abuse of the system, the major loophole in Britain’s border controls.”

**“This is the reality, anyone that has worked or been around a university in the last 5 years will be able to tell you this is the reality.”**

This is the reality, anyone that has worked or been around the real world in the last 5 years will be able to tell you this is the reality:

“THOUSANDS of foreign students bound for British universities are unaccounted for after being given UK entry visas.

Figures from only three universities show that almost 2,500 ¬candidates failed to turn up for their courses.

China, Saudi Arabia, India, Nigeria, Tanzania and Pakistan were among the countries where the highest number of missing applicants came from.

The shocking statistics will fuel concerns that foreigners are using student visas to bypass ¬immigration rules.

Last week a highly critical report from the Home Affairs select committee revealed that there may be up to 2,200 bogus UK colleges which have been set up purely to help immigrants enter the country…

The new figures show that, between 2005 and 2008, 1,436 ¬students failed to arrive at Solent University in Hampshire and 1,049 did not enrol at the Universities of Southampton and Winchester.”

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/117198/Migrants-go-missing-in-student-visa-scam-

“Fraudsters working in London colleges are exploiting major flaws in the Home Office’s new immigration system just months after it was launched, a BBC London investigation has found.

Under the new government system, students with advanced qualifications are allowed to live and work in the UK for up to two years.

But a BBC London investigation has shown that visas are currently being issued to immigrants whose qualifications are completely fake, which is exactly what happened under the old immigration system.

A seller of illegal visas was so fearless of the authorities he openly advertised his services online, on the Gumtree website.

The advert, posted by a man called Mr Rabbani, boasted anyone could get a visa for as little as £2,000…”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7775544.stm

“The biggest UK visa application racket has been convicted by the UK Home Office this week, reports Sky News.

The three-person outfit produced more than 90,000 fraudulent UK visa application documents for people wanting to move to the UK through the immigration system…

The “gang” used fraudulent colleges to get their fake university certificates, and paid tens of thousands of pounds in return for the documentation.

The Home Office are still battling against UK visa application rackets, it is hoping that the new strict rules under the tiered points-based system will flush out the majority of those trying to abuse the system. Currently, educational institutions who want to educate overseas students must have a licence to do so, and need to sponsor that student for a UK student visa. So far, thousands of educational institutions have not applied for their sponsorship licence because they cannot prove they are bona fide.”

http://www.visabureau.com/uk/news/03-06-2009/biggest-uk-visa-application-scam-uncovered.aspx... See all content Hide content

3 months, 2 weeks ago by Curious Freedom on Wordpress

@Unity

OK I’ll pipe down about the incongruity of picking datapoint A from one survey and datapoint B from another and arithmetically summing them. The point has been made.

But sooner or later you’re going to have to acknowledge that the only things we know for sure are the numbers counted in and the numbers given settlement, with the one lagging the other by a number of years (pick your own number).

In between these extremes lie a myriad of other datapoints, some of more dubious provenance than others. Which ones you choose to use and believe in is as much a political choice as a statistical one. ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 2 weeks ago by Dan Dare on Wordpress

Dan:

480,000 is the net effect of migration on the settle population, i.e. the headline figure.

The data I’ll be using in a later piece on settlement inflows and outflows and internal migration will deal with your point, which is the underlying trend and a question of changes in the demographic composition of the UK’s settled population.

3 months, 2 weeks ago by Unity on Wordpress

@Unity

“Not in the slightest – net migration is the correct metric to use for students …”

The remark about commiting a schoolboy howler was not related to the inclusion of students in the net migration figures (that’s the ONS’s fault for its mulish insistence on using the UN’s definition of what constitutes a migrant), but rather to the following assertion:

“ … although total net migration amounts to 1.859 million between 1997 and 2007, the number of people currently living in the UK with full settlement rights has risen by only 480,000.”

As far as I can tell, you have arrived at the last figure by subtracting the ‘net export of British citizens’ (811,000), which is presumably derived from the TIM/IPS datasets, from the settlement figures (1.292 million), which presumably derive from the HO report on Control of Immigration: Statistics.

If this is what you did, then it represents the commingling of figures from two unrelated datasets, which are based upon entirely different data collection techniques and of wildly differing reliability.

I will be happy to retract the remark if shown to be incorrect. ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 3 weeks ago by Dan Dare on Wordpress

54.

Firstly universities are, for all intents and purposes, run as businesses. If there was not a profit (or status) to be made in providing post-graduate courses then they wouldn’t offer them.

Second, out of all the students that are facing issues in the UK it is *not* undergraduates. Post-graduate course are, generally, paid for entirely by the student. They are courses that only exist because people want to do them, even if they aren’t UK students. Indeed from my experience post-grads tend to be Australian or European, and this is more because of their local economies and educational standards in their own country than anything else. I.E people come to this country to get post-grad qualifications to then take back and move on to a more productive “step” on their professional ladder back in the country they want to be in.

It is not a case of these institutions taking resources away from undergraduates, the resources are paid for almost entirely by the people wanting masters or PhD courses, as well as external bodies that are awarding research grants to institutions specifically to find out the stuff they want finding out. the “economy” of post-grad education is entirely different from that of the undergraduate market, so it’s best to not compare them as you have. ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 3 weeks ago by Lee Griffin on Wordpress

@CF

My use of the “beloved” reference to British students is because of the rap they usually get by the public. A glorious time to be a student, it seems, is when the public forgets that they are “scroungers and drunken layabouts” because their plight (which doesn’t exist, no matter how many times you quote irrelevant quotes, as others here have shown) happens to coincide with your anti-immigration arguments. In short, it was ironic, which seems to have been lost on you.

Anti-immigration arguments that you still haven’t explained your reason for, as it happens. And yes, like all the other times I *have* read above and, no, you haven’t explained your answers. For your benefit here it is copy and pasted…

“Can you also tell us what these people that have abused our immigration system have gone on to do? Are they all benefit scroungers in your eyes, do they have no economic benefit on this country whatsoever, or is the mere fact they’ve “abused” our system enough to show that they shouldn’t be here?”

I also repeat that students from outside the EU are an overwhelming economic benefit to this country, some would argue unfairly so in terms of how much we charge them, and that universities have for years been forging ahead with links with non-UK and non-EU countries to encourage those full-fee paying students.

These two things you’ve not really tackled…which is fair enough as there really is no escaping those realities so best to ignore them rather than admit you’re wrong, right?

As for your “spoon feeding” comment. I ask you to back up your claims because I have (like others here) been looking at this issue as in depth as I can manage for a long while. Your quotes are not new, nor are they proof of anything. Here are some more links that show university commitments to international students and developing these links…and indeed their frustration at UK moves that are putting off legitimate international students. This is the reality, anyone that has worked or been around a university in the last 5 years will be able to tell you this is the reality.

Here are a few more examples, here, here, here, here and here. And, for your reference, universities UK are the people running our universities. ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 3 weeks ago by Lee Griffin on Wordpress

@ Dan Dare

**“Thanks for that CF, but again this only only highlights the problems in taking a ‘pick’n’mix’ approach to the statistical evidence…”**

As I said, it gives a pretty good idea.

But I think we are straight back to that old trait of the left to disparage any source that doesn’t suit its arguments. If these figures had supported your contentions I have no doubt you would have embraced them like a drowning man.

The reason we don’t know precisely who is coming and going? Because the governments haven’t wanted us to know.

Why? Because they know it would have caused outrage.

@ sevillista

**“I take it you are referring to Table 3.08, which looks at international migration by reasons for migration and citizenship…”**

Same response to as to DD, really.

The figures are what they are and they show what they show. You can make all sorts of convoluted stories about them, but they are what they are and they are all we have because this government doesn’t want you to know the awful truth.

But the minister in charge does admit that “the abuse of the student visa has been the biggest abuse of the system, the major loophole in Britain’s border controls.”

So I would suggest that he was better placed to make that assessment, one that will have repercussions for him, then you are.

**“Isn’t this shortfall concentrated at undergrad level. And don’t most foreign students arrive here to complete Master courses (I don’t have stats for any of this unfortunately)”**

If you don’t have the stats then what are you basing that on?

**“Isn’t the reason for the shortfall that every place taken up by a UK student must be subsidised by the Government…”**

Your point here is not clear. What is clear is that up to 60,000 British students will miss out on a university education because our government prefers to squander our hard earned cash on wars, bankers and “foreign aid.”

**“As a result, I would not be surprised if foreign students increase the number of places available to UK student.”**

Again that is just a baseless comment when the reality is that places are limited and are running out fast.

**“I am amazed you seem to be against a successful export (higher education for foreign students) that provides jobs for British workers”**

I am against the gross abuses of this system as a conduit for illegal immigration as detailed in my comments above, including this drop in the ocean found amongst just three universities:

“THOUSANDS of foreign students bound for British universities are unaccounted for after being given UK entry visas.

Figures from only three universities show that almost 2,500 ¬candidates failed to turn up for their courses.

China, Saudi Arabia, India, Nigeria, Tanzania and Pakistan were among the countries where the highest number of missing applicants came from.

The shocking statistics will fuel concerns that foreigners are using student visas to bypass ¬immigration rules.

Last week a highly critical report from the Home Affairs select committee revealed that there may be up to 2,200 bogus UK colleges which have been set up purely to help immigrants enter the country…

The new figures show that, between 2005 and 2008, 1,436 ¬students failed to arrive at Solent University in Hampshire and 1,049 did not enrol at the Universities of Southampton and Winchester.”

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/117198/Migrants-go-missing-in-student-visa-scam-

@ Unity

1) The situation is perfectly clear: Tens of thousands of British students are being denied university places because the government claims a lack of funds.

2) The story above tells you why so many are not leaving: Because many are not even turning up to the courses they have booked and have no intention of leaving once here, the story below validates it.

3) Same as above and its not happening is it?

4) Sorry, does the Daily Express make your list of ‘ignored’ publications now?!

Are you seriously suggesting the whole article is an out and out fraud? If so then I assume you have reported it?

And you are clinging to straws if you belive what the UKBA try to sell you when they have been exposed for the liars they are over the massive Indian Visa increase, with the links in my previous comments.

A Solent University spokesman is hardly going to admit anything remotely negative about their university, now are they?

Here is more of the reality:

“Fraudsters working in London colleges are exploiting major flaws in the Home Office’s new immigration system just months after it was launched, a BBC London investigation has found.

Under the new government system, students with advanced qualifications are allowed to live and work in the UK for up to two years.

But a BBC London investigation has shown that visas are currently being issued to immigrants whose qualifications are completely fake, which is exactly what happened under the old immigration system.

A seller of illegal visas was so fearless of the authorities he openly advertised his services online, on the Gumtree website.

The advert, posted by a man called Mr Rabbani, boasted anyone could get a visa for as little as £2,000…”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7775544.stm

“The biggest UK visa application racket has been convicted by the UK Home Office this week, reports Sky News.

The three-person outfit produced more than 90,000 fraudulent UK visa application documents for people wanting to move to the UK through the immigration system…

The “gang” used fraudulent colleges to get their fake university certificates, and paid tens of thousands of pounds in return for the documentation.

The Home Office are still battling against UK visa application rackets, it is hoping that the new strict rules under the tiered points-based system will flush out the majority of those trying to abuse the system. Currently, educational institutions who want to educate overseas students must have a licence to do so, and need to sponsor that student for a UK student visa. So far, thousands of educational institutions have not applied for their sponsorship licence because they cannot prove they are bona fide.”

http://www.visabureau.com/uk/news/03-06-2009/biggest-uk-visa-application-scam-uncovered.aspx

And quite why everyone is acting so surprised or even denying its occurring here is beyond me given that pretty much every western country has exactly the same issue.

Here is just one report from Australia, for instance:

“PREMIER Anna Bligh has vowed to crackdown on a bogus student visa scam and has offered the state’s full support for a top-level investigation into the immigration rort.

The Courier-Mail yesterday revealed desperate overseas students are paying up to $100,000 in bribes to crooked businesses for fake documents to get permanent residency.

Mostly Indian, Chinese and Japanese students here on two-year student visas are willing to pay up-front to stay in the country. The Immigration Department has launched an investigation into the fake student visa scam after they were notified of businesses accepting bribes to sign-off on paperwork.”

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26378190-3102,00.html

**“Don’t try to get away with cherry-picking – I invariably check sources.”**

You wanted me to post the entire article then?

And in any case, as we have seen, the two left to comment on the story had vested interests, and one was from an organisation already exposed as dishonest.

@ Left Outside

Precisely! ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 3 weeks ago by Curious Freedom on Wordpress

@DanDare

I would disagree with your point on foreign students “crowding out” UK students for the reasons I’ve already stated.

On my previous point (I said I didn’t have data on students) – The Higher Education Statistics Agency are a good source of data here, as they provide break-downs by country of origin (UK/EU/Other) and qualification obtained and subject studies http://www.hesa.ac.uk/index.php?option=com_datatables&Itemid=121&task=show_category&catdex=3#quals

Their stats reveal that 60% of foreign students in the UK are studying at post-grad level. There are only 16,000 EU first degree students and 27,000 non-EU first degree students.

It is unclear that foreign masters students are crowding out UK masters students – especially as demand for masters courses is far lower from UK students (there is far less subsidy, and the labour market returns for most professions are weak for masters qualifications)

Someone might want to trawl these stats to glean more information – they’re a goldmine of information if you have the time. ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 3 weeks ago by sevillista on Wordpress

@CF

1. Your whole foreign students taking places from Brits is based on the lump of labour fallacy. University places awarded to fee-paying non-EU students are in addition to those taken up by Brits, which are also subsidised by the fees charged to non-EU students.

2. Inflows and outflows are disconnected in both TIM and IPS data so reasons for entry and reasons for leaving will not be the same. Someone who arrives as a student but leaves to take up a definite job will shows as student on the inflow data and an economic migrant on the outflow, only showing as a student on both if they leave to continue their studies outside the UK.

That’s why it appears that only 10% of overseas students leave the UK, because most of those who do leaving on completing their education leave for other reasons.

3. Capping of UK student numbers stems from limits on the amount of central government grant given to universities, which covers the majority of tuition costs.

The HE sector could easily accommodate an addition £50,000 British students, this year, if they were to pay the full costs of tuition, which is not far short of what the universities charge overseas students.

4. Sorry, you’re citing the Daily Express? And you also doing it selectively, hence you fail to point out this, from the same article…

A Solent University spokesman said: “Applicants apply to more than one university and get more than one offer. They then go to their preferred choice and fail to attend the others.”

UKBA director Jeremy Oppenheim added: “It is quite normal for students within the UK and from abroad to be offered a range of courses, only one of which they finally take up.

“This doesn’t mean they can get away without attending a course.

Don’t try to get away with cherry-picking – I invariably check sources.

And I notice that you’re still banging on about the 19,000 Indian visas having, my reference to regression to the mean having failed to register at all. ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 3 weeks ago by Unity on Wordpress

I'm currently commenting on this article: http://bit.ly/4nsUwv at Liberal Conspiracy. Take a look.

3 months, 3 weeks ago by Niaccurshi on Twitter

@ Unity

**“So much ignorance, so little time…”**

I wouldn’t put everything you say down to ignorance. There are other factors at play too.

**“Without the income from foreign students either:

a) tuition fees for UK students would have to rise by between £1,600 and £2,500 per year, or

b) the basic rate of income tax would need to rise by 2%”**

Yes , it would be doomsday!

Is that a fact? And where does this projection come from? A media source you do trust I hope. One that is politically acceptable and affirming I pray.

The fact is it is all just more hot air. Why exactly would tuition fees have to rise when the places being denied to British students are being filled by foreign ones in any case.

Why would income tax have to rise by 2%? To pay for what exactly? More foreign wars that have nothing to do with the UK? Bail out more banks and pay for more bonuses?

How about we cut the £1b ‘aid’ to India if we are really in such dire straits for a start and let them finance their own space programme.

One astute Indian media outlet, the Calcutta Telegraph puts it thus:

“Many Britons feel that their country cannot afford to lavish £825 million on India over three years. The previous five years’ aid of £1,045 million raised fewer hackles because Britain was not then in the dumps and India was not so exuberant either. Denis MacShane, a junior foreign office minister in Tony Blair’s government, puts it diplomatically. “The taxpayer has given more than £1 billion of aid to India even though that great country has more billionaires and millionaires than Britain and runs its own well-financed development aid programme…

Surrendering British aid would remove an unnecessary irritant. It would also be good for India’s self-respect.”

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1090822/jsp/opinion/story_11386845.jsp

In fact if really we are in such dire straits that we cannot put our own young through university due to lack of funds and would really need to raise taxes as you claim we should scrap all ‘foreign aid’. Most it goes to waste anyway.

In 2007 for example we gave £90 million and £40 million directly to the governments of Tanzania and Uganda respectively even though at least 20% of procurement spending in these countries is lost to corruption.

Next year we plan to give away £7.7b more of those taxes you cite, that is seven times the NHS deficit; so we don’t really need to be raising taxes at all, just to be managing them to our own benefit.

**“It was 4,000 (HAC report) and one cannot infer anything from the fact that a fairly significant number were either rejected or chose not to apply for registration under the new scheme”**

Are you serious?

One cannot infer anything from the fact that significant numbers have been rejected?! Or that significant numbers have refused to apply for registration?!

I think one can infer everything one needs to know from that information, actually.

**“I’ll ignore Frank Field’s comments – he’s about as reliable as Vaz.”**

I notice the left does a raging trade in ‘ignoring’ sources they don’t like, be it media or individuals.

I don’t particularly like Vaz as he is corrupt, but given his own passport scam and others, I think he just might have an insight into this problem.

But I think moreover the question needs to be asked: What in reality would Field or Vaz have to gain by lying about this issue?

And why would the governments own minister in charge of this shambles put his neck on the line by admitting that in his estimation the “abuse of the student visa has been the biggest abuse of the system, the major loophole in Britain’s border controls.”?

**“Hence the need for this series – it is, however, interesting to note that all your sources appear to be those unreliable media outlets.”**

Again back to the childish tactic of ‘ignoring’ media outlets that you are politically opposed too. The inaccuracies are almost always in interpretation and not based upon out and out fraud. The reports they cite are almost always real and you can obtain copies and check the data for yourself.

**“That doesn’t even cover the number of overseas students currently in postgraduate education.”**

You seem to misunderstand. 110,000 were arriving each year with only 10,000 leaving each year.

Any new course, any new job, any change in fact and the student is required to leave the country to obtain a new visa. That is not happening. 100,000 each are staying each year.

**“What about the data for the other 44 weeks of the year?”**

There are cited to be around 410,000 students in the UK currently so the approximate figure of 5% is accurate.

**“I think you’ve facepalmed there…”**

I think you wanting it to be so and it actually being a reality is very far removed.

**“Hardly surprising when over 500,000 students come to the UK to learn English”**

Where is your source for that figure and what is is the time frame?

But that same immigration officer does elaborate:

“The immigration officer told BBC Radio 5 live about a recent case of an Indian woman in her 50s who presented herself as a student enrolling on an advanced course, despite the fact that she could barely speak English.

“She was going to do an ACCA accounting course, of which when asked in Hindi what ACCA meant, she didn’t have a clue,” he said.

“She wasn’t even able to say in her own language what the course was going to entail.”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8332314.stm

-

@ Alex

**“Copy paste from the BNP blog much?”**

The source is actually from an independent report entitled” The Patterns of Higher Education Institutions in the UK” by Professor Geoffrey Crossick of Universities UK.

Or is he another inconvenient source you would like to ignore? ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 3 weeks ago by Curious Freedom on Wordpress

“A little over a month ago, The Guardian reported that ‘thousands of university places could be left unfilled and institutions millions of pounds out of pocket, because high fee-paying international students are being blocked from starting degrees under a new visa system’. It reported that as many as 14,000 students from Pakistan, alone, were likely to be unable to begin their courses on time due to a backlog in processing visa applications,”

Hmmm. Any idea why that might be?

Oh, it seems you have:

“Fears of Islamic extremists entering the UK from Pakistan have obviously played a role in creating this situation”

Which, to be honest, isn’t exactly earth shattering, is it? I don’t know what was the point of including this in your article. ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 3 weeks ago by Mr F on Wordpress

hmmm…”heavyweight immigration expose”..39 posts…erm, I mean 39-28=11 posts..so far…really caught the imagination and lived up to the big ‘launch’ eh?

Liberal Conspiracy = floundering irrelevant and collapsing under the weight of its pseudo-left pretensions. Only seems to come alive when some nutter’s throwing around ‘identity theft allegations .

Obviously it’s probably someone else posting this..kinda goes without saying around here doesn’t it?

Come and see my show. ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 3 weeks ago by chairman moo on Wordpress

Nice example of selective reporting there…

What the HAC concluded was…

14. Colleges not on the register of sponsors will no longer be able to facilitate student visas; however we are concerned about the number of illegal immigrants who may already have entered the UK on fraudulent student visas, the numbers of which could be in the tens of thousands.

That said , checking your information, which from The Times (link please in future, it makes life easier) did lead me to English UK which states, on a press release relating to Tony Milns appearance before the committee:

More than 500,000 students every year choose to learn English in Britain, an

estimated 43% of all students who travel abroad to study English. They contribute about £1.5 billion to the UK economy in course fees,

accommodation and general spending. Many students go on from English

language courses to UK degrees or professional qualifications. There are

long-term affinity benefits to Britain as well since many students go on to be

opinion-leaders and senior figures in their own countries.

There’s a large chunk of the apparent discrepancy between inflows and outflows – students entering the UK to learn English before going on to university.

Its also worth noting that the main body of the HAC report actually misrepresents the evidence it was given, stating that:

10. The Minister of State for Borders and Immigration told us that the Home Office issues around 200,000 student visas each year. Witnesses were unable to give an accurate estimate as to how many of these students entered the country via bogus colleges but the Chief Executive of English UK, Tony Millns, said “it could be tens of thousands quite easily”.

In fact, the oral evidence relating to this figure runs as follows:

Q6 Chairman (Vaz): Covering how many students [at bogus colleges]?

Mr Millns: That again is extremely difficult to say. The whole problem with this area is that there is no Association of Bogus Language Schools to speak for them, so it is rather difficult to a get a handle on it. Some of them are undoubtedly very small with possibly only 20 or 30 students, but the problem is that of course until the end of March this year they were, if they were on the Register of Education and Training Providers maintained by the Department of Innovation, Universities and Skills, able to bring in international students who required visas, and it is simply unknown how many of those students they might have bought in over the last four, five or six years.

Q7 Chairman: Are we talking about numbers of hundreds?

Mr Millns: It could be tens of thousands quite easily.

Q8 Chairman: There are tens of thousands of bogus students in this country at the moment?

Mr Millns: Quite easily.

Milns ‘tens of thousands is both a piece of guesswork and a figure given initially as an estimate of the numbers of bogus students accumulated over a period of 4-6 years and subsequently confirmed as being, possibly, the total number in the UK.

What this demonstrates, if this were not already perfectly apparent, is that Keith Vaz is a cunt, and no more trustworthy than Woollas. ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 3 weeks ago by Unity on Wordpress

@cjcjc

Answer: none.

Unity is, I presume, using HESA data from the Student Record which only records students at accredited HE institutions. (Incidentally, I think I have the data from 1991 to 1997 that Unity might want if so – drop me a line Unity if you need it, although I probably can’t get it to you until later in the week)

@Curious Freedom

I am at a loss to understand how you feel that a lot of home students not getting into university because we’re unable to fund places for them is linked to international students, who pay full economic cost, also getting places through other routes.

To reiterate, international students at accredited UK universities are not the same as people sold dodgy courses at dicey colleges. That they exist is not in question. There’s even a register kept by the UKBA of colleges that have been busted. That they are not covered by Unity’s article is also obvious to anyone who actually knows what they’re talking about.

The Daily Mail article you cite as ‘evidence’ (here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1208816/Overseas-student-surge-hits-110-000-And-tenth-decide-theyll-stay-Britain.html, for people who like their information sourced) conflates the fact that a lot of international first degree students do appalling things like take postgraduate courses (more money for us), or get jobs (the horror! Foreign nurses!) with bogus college attendees (don’t forget that a lot of these people have been conned), who are not on university rolls in a typically dishonest Mailesque way.

It also (probably deliberately) ignores schemes like Fresh Talent : http://www.scotlandistheplace.com/stitp/276.html (designed to arrest problems with Scottish skills shortages), and the unpalatable fact for the Mail that this scheme has now, since 2008, been effectively extended to the whole UK through the points-based system. ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 3 weeks ago by Ken McKenzie on Wordpress

Also, genuine universities and colleges notice when unusual numbers of students from one particular country are suddenly meeting criteria compared to previous years. As happened with large numbers of suitable Nigerian applicants when I used to work for the Business School in a UK university. It was pretty damn obvious to administrators that these were unlikely to be genuine students.

It’s really not that easy to sneak in as a bogus student. ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 3 weeks ago by Phil H on Wordpress

Tim:

Because that the period for which the most overlapping data is available.

There’s little or no useful data on immigration pre-dating 1990/91 and much of the 2008 data has yet to be published.

The story of the recession will have to be written in a couple of years time when the numbers come in, although I’d expect that in some respects thing will resemble the early 90’s, especially when it comes to economic migration.

cjcjc:

Who knows – there is no data on private FE colleges, etc, so its impossible to do the numbers.

I would, however, be cautious about placing too much store in what Phil Woollas is saying – the Borders Agency has screwed up on student visas (as usual) and unverifiable tales of fake colleges make for good cover.

This is from Bill Rammell, two years ago -

“As the Enforcement Strategy recognises, my department already works closely with the Home Office to stop fake colleges operating and prevents bogus students from entering the UK. 40% of all new applications to join the Register fall at the first hurdle, because they cannot meet the conditions for entry. We also have applications pending from 250 colleges which have not been able to meet the requirements of the Register, and we think are unlikely to do so.

“Our message to those who think it is easy to set up a fake college and recruit fake students is that we are on your case – don’t even think about it.”

http://www.publicservice.co.uk/article.asp?publication=Central%20Government&id=253&content_name=Communications&article=7729

Colleges have to be registered before visas can be issued to overseas students who claim to have been offer places to study at them. ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 3 weeks ago by Unity on Wordpress

I wonder how many were enrolled into this kind of college?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6088256.ece

What we can say, in regards to those who are still living in the UK, whether continuing their studies, or working and/or having settled into family life in this country is that with government projections suggesting that there may be only 900,000 unskilled jobs in the UK economy by 2o20 and 20.7% of the adult population lacking the degree of literacy necessary to work out the correct amount of medicine to give a child from the label on the packet, any government with designs on the UK making its way in the the world as a high-tech knowledge will be relying heavily on the UK’s higher education system to continue to draw in, and retain, the brightest and best that the world has to offer.

Or we might just have a go at educating that 21% a little better? ... See all content Hide content

3 months, 3 weeks ago by cjcjc on Wordpress

RT @Unity_MoT: RT @libcon: :: The Truth about Immigration The migrants you don't hear about in the tabloids http://bit.ly/5Ue3h2 and the 2nd

3 months, 3 weeks ago by 5 Chinese Crackers on Wordpress

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